REGARDING TENTATIVE TIME-SKIP

[storm]

Dec 26, 2012 19:28:57 GMT -5 @red said:

Personally I think they only reason they still float around is because people want to preserve Lurker's memory.

I keep them floating because I think that if people want something as big as new canons added or new locations they should prove it by working for it. Don't get me wrong I think they're going really slow too but I keep them floating for the reason stated above.

I still talk to Lurker on skype whenever he comes on so there's no "memory" I need to preserve here. The only thing related to Lurker that I preserve here is Juniper's influence because she was vastly important to PREcanon.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 19:41:09 GMT -5 @storm said:

Dec 26, 2012 19:28:57 GMT -5 @red said:

Personally I think they only reason they still float around is because people want to preserve Lurker's memory.

I keep them floating because I think that if people want something as big as new canons added or new locations they should prove it by working for it. Don't get me wrong I think they're going really slow too but I keep them floating for the reason stated above.

I'm pretty sure that reason will suddenly become moot if Orre, an entire region, gets added after a time skip like with nothing being needed for it to be brought here other than say so wouldn't it?

[balendin]

I do not like the idea of time skips at all. Its like people just want to get things accomplished without actually having to do anything. Whatever the future is decided to look like if we do a time skip is going to make some people really happy and really piss other people off. I say just keep moving forward with Pre and let the future unfold naturally.

[Palmer]

I like the implication that the plot just ends with the war, which won't even formally be resolved. If there's a peace treaty, it takes one action to break it. and I doubt the remaining Hoenn Lux forces going to take the loss of Hoenn lying down, especially once Hoenn Nox starts eating itself without Terran to hold it together. There's also people like Bale, who is so radical that he wouldn't give Nox freedom but try them as war criminals. There's Courtney, who won't stop until Lux is purged. The only issue isn't that the plot vanishes. It just gets a loooot more complicated. There are a ton of leaders, factions, alliances, beliefs, etc, and everything can change at a moment's notice.

Also Orre will not be fit enough to stand on its own lol. It's gonna be in the "rebuilding" process, but a good chunk of the population doesn't want Cipher's help and they don't know who Lux is but they don't want their help, either. Stubborn Rednecks: The RP. I figure Orre's gonna be a fun region to RP in because everything's gonna be run-down, shitty, and near starvation. And I've bribed Jin so we're likely getting Orre regardless of whether the timeskip happens or not therefore if you have ideas, now is the time to throw them out.

Plot only dies when there isn't conflict. And war sites aren't unique, tbh. And the endless war? I don't know how many characters feel like they want it to go on. Hell, an entire city was just totaled. Not a few buildings or a bridge but Goldenrod's heartland was completely smashed. There was an a-bomb off the coast of Hoenn that was tested, and that's also a beautiful omen of shit that could happen if the war doesn't end. There's IC reasoning for non-radical people to step back and go, "Okay. Maybe enough is enough."

Of course, this could be done without a timeskip, or a few month timeskip. I don't see it needing to be too long, and I can have N start pushing for peace now and give a few speeches and shit and make a few enemies as he decides that mmmmaybe war kinda sucks and we should just give Nox Cianwood and Olivine since with the Cherrygrove Port becoming a thing, we don't really need either. Because if Lux lets that happen, maybe the rebellion will quiet down.

Personally, I think the "constant fighting" is getting pretty boring. As someone who's been here almost a year, I think the issue is that half the characters on the site still just exist to fight fight fight. Ending the war will mean we have to focus on the reason WHY everyone has been fighting, and if those reasons even mean anything, and if they can even stop fighting. Also, seeing how everyone gets along without a common enemy would be cool as fuck. Looking at you, Nox. Time for you to be interesting for once.

[creamsicles]

I'm kind of split on a timeskip.

For one thing, like Lou said, it'd be interesting to move past the current war and see how 'post-war' might be. Except I suspect that post-war will be fraught with quite a lot of technical issues and turbulent political football, perhaps even dissenters on either side who might even refuse to lay down their arms and continue to fight and cause trouble - while certainly not on the scale that we know PRE war to be - but enough to remind the characters that not all is well in a world where hatred probably wouldn't be quelled by words on a piece of paper. After all, characters have died in this war and been changed, and how would they would react to this peace treaty or cease-fire or whatever is cooked up?

I definitely think this would be interesting.

Conversely, I also think it would be interesting to continue with the war and not have a timeskip. Although Lou has pointed out the war sites aren't anything new or unique, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I joined PRE because it was a war site, and idea originality doesn't necessarily equate enjoyment. But then again, I'm the sort of person who's more interested in how my characters think and feel in war, their mentality and how they're shaped by the events they encounter in these turbulent times. They don't exist to just fight - I'm not so much interested in battling for the sake of battling, as I am in their psyche and how they grow.

Also, there's this to consider: members who haven't been on PRE as long as Lou has.

I'm one of them and there are others. I could go either way, but I think maybe there might be others who haven't had their fill of PRE war time yet? People who haven't gotten to participate in battles yet. Plots just started that gotten off the ground yet - would a timeskip disrupt these? Characters who weren't made so long ago, who haven't had the time to develop in rp - would they suddenly have to acquire a post-war mentality that they didn't have the time to work toward?

Anyway, that's just my two cents - like I said, I could go either way. But I do like the idea of a gradual time change rather than a sudden shift. It would give time to prepare for current members - and maybe there could be warnings in the rules/info about an upcoming timeskip for potential members? So if they joined, they wouldn't be so surprised to roleplay in war time, and then there's this timeskip later that they might be unprepared for and have to adjust for?

[devlan]

perhaps the best way to do it would be have a tag for it like [ Post War] or [War Time] so people who want to do battles can still do them maybe make the time skip flexible time line wise that sort of thing could work so everyone is happy

[Stellar]

I'm casting my vote in the small timeskips rather than a large one. It's true that many, many plots would be destroyed without the war and with the large time skip, and in the defense of those characters, it's better to have small timeskips that we can all adjust to. Not only it wouldn't feel as though as w have turned the whole site upside down in one night or one day or however you looked at it, small timeskips actually gave us stories to play out, each different arc. On the way we could also plan out what we wants when the war ended.

On the other note, as for Postdormitum (we can totally add that to Pre's dictionary *giddy*) well, it doesn't have to end like that. No offence to Pre, but I doubt the peace would last long. It's like, tension everywhere, and it would be very canonically understandable if the whole site falls to another war, one that is possible more politic wise, or maybe more brutal? It brings a whole new setting for ideas that is fresh and nostalgic in the same time?

[erie]

to be honest the main reason i joined PRE was because of the war setting and how uniquely set up it was. i've only been a member for a little over a month now and i'm still not entirely used to how the site works. i enjoy being here, and i love the tense plot and characters and everything. so i'm not sure how a time-skip would work. honestly i'm a little flabbergasted. if pre was intended to be a "civil war" site, why do an instant skip ahead when the war's over? sure, there might be tensions and unresolved feelings but i don't think it'd be a good idea.

moreover, i like the idea of gradually doing small time-skips. maybe like a few months or so? idk how that'd work but i don't really like the idea of doing a massive time-skip. as a newer member, i'm not sure how comfortable i'd be with the sudden change of plot. i feel like it'd be too jarring for those who have joined in the last month or so.

[Palmer]

That's essentially my thoughts, Lati. I figure the only timeskip we should do is a brief "fast forward" through a small moment of peace, one that only lasts a month or two IC. If we push to post-war, I'd like it to be an IC Push, which we can do without a timeskip. But I'd rather see the plot progress and start pushing towards the end. I understand that not everyone has been here for as long as I have, but the "end of the war" plot doesn't have to happen instantly. It can start slowly, and I know it's well within N's character to start pushing for it now. He can't do much politically, but if he starts pushing with his publicity, soon the Lux citizens will start pushing for peace as well (I like to think he's somewhat influential on that front).

I mean, all plots have to come to an end. If they don't, they start to drag. And ending a plot doesn't mean ending a site. When one plot ends, you start a new one. This is how sites like Sapphos and RPGen have lasted two years (Sapphos is three, actually, and while it's had a few breaks, it's still got a dedicated memberbase and strong plots; I'm pretty sure PRE can be the same). The war is our starting concept, and when it ends, we figure out what's happening, how long the peace is gonna last, etc. Stagnation is just as deadly as changing too quickly.

My major fear is, if the plot doesn't start moving, we'll start to lose staff. I hate to bring that up but yeah, we've already lost a few staffers and I'm not sure how long the others will last. I can stand to lose "the old guard" that we've almost all lost, but when the old guard is staff, I start to get a little nervous. Staff isn't as easily replaced as an IC position. Character-wise, we can write around a missing character. OOCly? We have to be picky with our staff. And we've already lost two admins. So I think maybe change would be good, because while PRE is a member sandbox, I know from experience how much weight staff can throw into a site.

[lamarck]

I can see why those who'ebeen here a year+ might be tired of the war not going anywhere

What if we had a plot to end it instead of a timeskip?

Or, what if post-time skip, we threw in more than just an 'unstable peace'? What if one region (sinnoh maybE?) is still fighting when the rest have a truce ,and they do a 'false flag' attack in another region to try to spur war to start again? What if we raise the issue of say, what happens to the shoal cave and rock tunnel prisoners if the war ends, or what happens to people on the losing side who've pissed off the winning side? I think instead of looking at this as 'war ending', we should look at what new things can be beginning.


I have a plot planned with a few people to have someone who escapes the Tunnel and steals some documents from there showing some of the terrible things going. I'd love to expan that to more people if anyone would be interested in the potential consequences if the inner workings of rock tunnel are exposed to the public.

[tane]

I didn't respond to this right away because I had to think about this first. It's a pretty big deal, and even though I've seen it coming more than some of our newer members it was still a bit of a surprise.

First off, aside from this, I want to say that from what I understood Orre was fought for tooth and nail, missions or no. We already have the main canons of Orre, whether they are treated as main canons or not. And the state Orre is currently in? It's a wreck. It needs fixing. People are fighting for survival there. If someone looks at Orre and says there's no plot to be gleaned from that, then the problem isn't Orre. However, if we really need to have missions, well, there's plenty of room for missions.

Now, moving on.

On one hand, I can see why people want a timeskip. I can see the need to shake things up, to give the plot a good kick. I can also see people who haven't seen the plot drag on taking this as out of the blue. I could take a short time skip, one that allows plots to survive. I'd feel more up to it if the timeskip was something in the future that allowed for current plots to be wrapped up, such as the rocket plot (our rocket players are fading away), the rock tunnel-isshu plot, and others.

Personally, I would have preferred it if this was pushed for icly. Even I have characters who would do this. Only a few of them have benefited from the war, and enough of them have seen that there is no good in prolonging it.

Tane would seek to help the civilians. Malthus would very likely back N, and anyone who knows about Goldenrod wouldn't have to ask why. The list will go on when I get back to thinking on it.


Edit: I forgot to mention that, like some others, I can see things going differently for different countries. Right now it looks like Kanto and Johto would go lux, Hoenn might would go Nox, Sinnoh could go any which way or even break down the middle as someone said to me a while ago, and Isshu is going to be choking under all those refugees.

[surge]

From what I’ve seen, it looks like the primary concern people have with this time skip is that it may take away what makes PRE, well, PRE. Reconstruction and a momentary peace time is very appealing and it alters the mood and allows new ideas to sprout but is it worth settling down and bringing the bulk of the hostilities down? It'll be a big change no matter what and if we do it wrong it could screw a lot of people over. Do we go with the new or don’t fix what’s not broken?

TO FIGHT OR TO PEACE?

Personally, I think a time skip would be wonderful but only for the span of a month to six months. That being said, time skips are used as story telling devices and shouldn’t be thrown around for the sake of a time skip. For instance, Unova and Kanto could use one once Seafoam is taken care of. With Juniper dying a martyrs deaths, the Isshu movement should really take off regardless of how slow OCC progress is with the mission. Kanto really depends on whether Nox wins or loses Seafoam. If Lux wins, Nox goes into hiding and slowly intergrates with the Kanto homeland until they’re ready to take it back by storm; cue time skip. On the other side of the spectrum, if Nox wins, they dominate the sea and have both Seafoam and Cinnabar. They can consolidate power by taking Sevi during the time skip and eventually blockade most of Kanto’s water ways until either Johto interferes or they try to take on the mainland. Both of these work quite well considering activity has been slow in both regions but that doesn’t really apply to Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh (but honestly IDK I don’t keep up with those).

Since Nox is not a single entity but rather everyone who isn't Lux, you can establish some kind of peace in one region without making it a global agenda. Kanto relationships might be peaceful because their branch of Nox surrendered or went into hiding while Johto is still having a full on war. We have five regions and we should be able to cater to most types of enviroments. We have Lux dominated Kanto, neutral Unova, 50/50(?) Johto, and a ticking Hoenn Nox. I'm sure we can make something for everybody.

But even then, the biggest problem with a timeskip, imo, is that you have to jump forward each region. They’re rarely kept together in terms of plotlines, so it’s hard to find an opportunity to have the site to jump forward without screwing someone over. Along with that, we have to establish what’s happened to our characters and make sure our stories don’t conflict with one another.

It can be done but it'll be a lot of trouble. Just be cautious and play safe and I think it can really jump boost the site when we really need it.

[draco]

-- This is PEACH, btw.

This is one of the few, if not the first, forum in which I've noticed the extensive involvement of the members in the development of the plot. The fact staff brought this up for discussion says a lot about PRE, and I'm happy to have joined. I feel I can speak, and be heard, so I thought of giving a more detailed thought on timeskips and whatnot.


- First, I'm an admin in another role play site some members from here actually know me from. We've been around since 2007, and we've had many issues, but we're still going. In the topic of timeskips we've done our own to promote and consolidate certain plot points, or plot elements that cannot be done IC. In a futurist setting, it's meant the involvement of new technology, etcétera; for us to be able to add those elements, or kick-start plot, we've done timeskips and rebooted some aspects of the site.

That's where I see PRE. I'm new, I love the war setting, I enjoy the battles, but I understand how it can stagnate for lack of a better word. I'd say timeskips can be used as a plot device, to turn the tide, to give a new dimension to the war itself - ie; adding Orre fully into the mix, a temporary peace, new technologies, drastic changes that otherwise are un-roleplayable* - while pushing some plots that are not entirely dependent, or are individual from, the members.

I do agree with the idea of a timeskip, but imho It'd be easier to, well, ease into it with certain prompts, missions, and events (maybe w/ a limited time frame like battles) to push into the timeskip. In the process, that would give players the opportunity to prepare for the coming changes, finish up plots that would be cancelled/redundant with the timeskips, and plan for new plots in a post-war, or posttimeskip setting.

An example would be the countless characters that are striving for development in certain areas. Let's say a sympathizer for NOX whose player plans on the character becoming a Lt. later on. How would we work w/ that? If there was a system to keep track of what the players want for their individual threads, things that could/would/should impact site as a whole, we can ease into the timeskip and in the process consolidate the changes with the current characters, and plots.

I love timeskips for the fact that though some plots are sacrificed, you can give the site and story a whole new flavor, a different muse; but, like a sequel to a good book or movie, like the second book in a trilogy, it can sometimes feel odd because its new elements deviate from the feel, and atmosphere that made the original appealing. Can we evolve into something different, new while retaining our roots and keeping PRE as, well, PRE?


I go back to saying the community, the writing quality, the prompts, battles, and general feel of the site are amazing simply because of the members involved. Whatever is done, I'd say that in a way I trust the staff, and its members, to remain being PRE and badass. This is also where I agree w/ Lou in that, well, sometimes you need change; a reason. There are dimensions to role play, to a character, that can't always be limited to war I guess. Sooner or later it has to end - the war, that is - and, if it does, why not go towards an ending war that we can use as a plot device into something different, rather than letting the site die because the war died, or die because we remained the same.


-Snicker - I say we cuz I already feel part of PRE.

- All the feels -

This has been a Public Service Announcement by Peaches.

[erin]

I was all for a timeskip, but upon further inspection I wonder how much is really needed.

Think about it, what seems to be the trend in all of the posts here so far? Pushing for peace in Johto, a semi-independent Unova, Hoenn Nox-dominated, Kanto Lux-dominated, and Sinnoh a bitter stalemate. We have most of these conditions already, and with N pushing for peace in Johto we can pretty much have our bitter, uneasy peace without actually needing to randomly hop forward in time.

Hell, adding an entire new region in the form of Orre would shake up way more than skipping time without adding Orre would. I'd say we focus on the big, important change and stay away from the one that could kick plots forward a little too far.

[ADMINISTRATION]

I understand members' concerns about their individual plots, and there are definitely other solutions apart from a time skip. It's already been brought up that we want to eventually incorporate Orre into PRE (read as ASAP), which feasibly, would impact the site plot as much as a time skip could be used as plot element.

What we have established thus far is that Orre is, essentially, barren and empty, or there's more stuff out there but nobody knows what.

lou that's ur cue

[/justify]